hdorre Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Im mainly curious. Usually when we see mids & highs threads, its about the opposite.. which is keeping up. Assuming a setup is tuned, crossed over, and EQ'd properly; could a front stage really be overbearing? As in so loud that it drowns out the substage? The answers are obviously subjective, as it depends on the listener.. but generally speaking, could a front stage be so loud, thats its "too much" for a substage? On 5/8/2011 at 7:38 PM, Kranny said: On 5/8/2011 at 7:35 PM, 'Maxim' said: It hurts me inside when I read stuff like this and remember you're 15 LMFAO so true Mitsubishi 3000GT (Old Build) Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS Frontstage: (2) McLaren Audio MLT-2 Tweeters & (4) PRV Audio MR Series Neo 6.5" Mids Substage: 4 15" Hybrid Subs - Tantric Motors & Sundown Softies Amps: Banda 2.4D Amp (Tweets), American Bass VFL 350.4 (Mids), and (2) Ampere 3800s Electrical :Singer 260A Alt & JY Power Lithium 2005 Chevy Colorado Ext Cab Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS Frontstage: 4 PRV 700Ti Tweets & 6 10" Delta Mids on 3000wrms Substage: 6 Fi BTL 18s in a 4th Order Walkthrough on 3 Wolfram 4500s Electrical: Singer "390" and JY Power My Official Feedback Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Most of the time when someone builds an "Audiophile" system, It's like you said ... All about tuning. Mainly setting your gains. Get you a "Zero" bit track cd, set all of your gains to zero or flat, and turn your headunit up to just about over the 3/4 mark. Technically if everything is installed correctly ... You should hear nothing. Correct ?? Then you turn your gains up slowly until you start to hear a slight "hiss" in your system. then you back off until that hiss disapears. That is what is most commonly referred to "setting your gains for headroom" ... This should help you tune and make each individual part of the system work in unison. When set up corectly and you have your time alignment dialed in ... You shoud not be able to tell where any driver is in the vehicle what so ever ... Am I close to wha you are asking ??? Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdorre Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Most of the time when someone builds an "Audiophile" system, It's like you said ... All about tuning. Mainly setting your gains. Get you a "Zero" bit track cd, set all of your gains to zero or flat, and turn your headunit up to just about over the 3/4 mark. Technically if everything is installed correctly ... You should hear nothing. Correct ?? Then you turn your gains up slowly until you start to hear a slight "hiss" in your system. then you back off until that hiss disapears. That is what is most commonly referred to "setting your gains for headroom" ... This should help you tune and make each individual part of the system work in unison. When set up corectly and you have your time alignment dialed in ... You shoud not be able to tell where any driver is in the vehicle what so ever ... Am I close to wha you are asking ??? You took a different approach.. But I THINK you partially answered it. I guess.. just to sum it up.. Can a front stage actually overpower a substage? Lets use an example thats somewhat realistic: 2 15s on 3kwrms 4 Pro Audio 8s on 150wrms each 2 tweets on 120wrms each On 5/8/2011 at 7:38 PM, Kranny said: On 5/8/2011 at 7:35 PM, 'Maxim' said: It hurts me inside when I read stuff like this and remember you're 15 LMFAO so true Mitsubishi 3000GT (Old Build) Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS Frontstage: (2) McLaren Audio MLT-2 Tweeters & (4) PRV Audio MR Series Neo 6.5" Mids Substage: 4 15" Hybrid Subs - Tantric Motors & Sundown Softies Amps: Banda 2.4D Amp (Tweets), American Bass VFL 350.4 (Mids), and (2) Ampere 3800s Electrical :Singer 260A Alt & JY Power Lithium 2005 Chevy Colorado Ext Cab Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS Frontstage: 4 PRV 700Ti Tweets & 6 10" Delta Mids on 3000wrms Substage: 6 Fi BTL 18s in a 4th Order Walkthrough on 3 Wolfram 4500s Electrical: Singer "390" and JY Power My Official Feedback Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionStang Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I guess.. just to sum it up.. Can a front stage actually overpower a substage? Yep, especially if you are used to a lot of bass. In my ride, may substages have sounded quiet against my Hertz components SMD Super Seller My Feedback Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacomaguy1 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Yes, and I hate insanely loud mids My blazer has 4 neopro 8's and 2 aq super tweeters and its too loud lol With bass up its ok Team Flex Issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoFatt0529 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 You can never have "TO LOUD" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdorre Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Yes, and I hate insanely loud mids My blazer has 4 neopro 8's and 2 aq super tweeters and its too loud lol With bass up its ok Thats what I meant On 5/8/2011 at 7:38 PM, Kranny said: On 5/8/2011 at 7:35 PM, 'Maxim' said: It hurts me inside when I read stuff like this and remember you're 15 LMFAO so true Mitsubishi 3000GT (Old Build) Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS Frontstage: (2) McLaren Audio MLT-2 Tweeters & (4) PRV Audio MR Series Neo 6.5" Mids Substage: 4 15" Hybrid Subs - Tantric Motors & Sundown Softies Amps: Banda 2.4D Amp (Tweets), American Bass VFL 350.4 (Mids), and (2) Ampere 3800s Electrical :Singer 260A Alt & JY Power Lithium 2005 Chevy Colorado Ext Cab Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS Frontstage: 4 PRV 700Ti Tweets & 6 10" Delta Mids on 3000wrms Substage: 6 Fi BTL 18s in a 4th Order Walkthrough on 3 Wolfram 4500s Electrical: Singer "390" and JY Power My Official Feedback Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I guess.. just to sum it up.. Can a front stage actually overpower a substage? Lets use an example thats somewhat realistic: 2 15s on 3kwrms 4 Pro Audio 8s on 150wrms each 2 tweets on 120wrms each I do not think that you can build a setup on your front stage for 4 Pro Audio 8s and walk over 2 15s in any application ... But then again, I've never had much faith in Pro Audio drivers in most applications used on this forum. My setup in the 49 will consist of a 10 in each kick pannel ported and tuned to 28 htz and will run fullrange. It should handle sub bass duty for what I'm after, But not so sure if it will overpower a well built 2 15s setup. In all reality (going back to tuning) ... A well built system will have the subs time aligned in reference to the midbass drivers so your mind actually think that the midbass drivers are actually making that low end bass and not the subs. I plan to try and time align mine to where you actually think my 5.25" midrange drivers are pulling lowerend midbass duty ... Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDrifter Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I LOVE loud front stages. Loud, not harsh. I heard Jeremy Boyd's ride and he has the loudest front stage I've ever heard. Could be heard loud and clear over a 160db substage. Rockford pro audio components, very well tuned. He compets in SQ. It was stupid crazy loud but not harsh. It was really weird, I could feel the mids in my joints - knuckles, elbows, knees. It hurt my ears because it was so loud, but not in a shrill sort of way. Hearing was muffled for the rest of the night. But it DID sound good. Really good. Cleanest 160s car I've ever heard. Front stage was just too much for me though ~~~~~~~~SAY NO TO PHOTOBUCKET~~~~~~~~ Snow's DD-1 tracks here: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/167433-snows-dd-1-tracks/ My take on OFC vs CCA: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/110381-things-that-piss-you-off-in-the-car-audio-world/?do=findComment&comment=2461444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMonolith2001 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 It can but probably not for the reasons you think. Your hearing is not flat. You might have what you think is very little power/cone area compared to your sub but because your ears are more sensitive to that range it sounds like it is overpowering while maybe even on a meter not so much. Research Fletcher-Munson Curve, Equal Loudness Curve, or Equal Loudness Contour. Make sure you read them carefully though because they read a bit differently than the typical graph. (There are many other curves as well that deal with this subject, but this is a good start) This is another reason why you don't always want to tune completley flat. You might be putting out flat, but you wont be hearing flat. It is better to tune to one of these curves. If you want to get really specific you can tune to your specific hearing. I'm considering having my hearing mapped out and doing that. Snowdrifter, What you want to look up is both what I mentioned before in combination with Listener Fatigue. A good tuning should be able to get really loud while not hurting your ears at all*. Sometimes its not even about loud though. I have used some headphones that sounded so terrible that it would make your ears hurt eventually just from the shitty response curve at any volume. Most likely they where loudest where my ears where most sensitive, but there are other factors that go into it as well, high distortion probably being one of them in that case. These where the cheap shitty 5-10 dollar types. *By really loud I mean up to the threshold of pain, which is lower than you think. This system very well could have been just too damn loud. The threashold of pain is obviously where sound starts to hurt, and you start really fucking up your hearing in permanent ways. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_of_pain I know no one wants to admit it, but a lot of us on here are doing very serious damage to our hearing that will effect us for the rest of our lives. How much fun will it been when you can no longer hear bass (or much else) and only feel it? Be careful guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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