I think I finally understand the gun argument

[alaskanzx5]

Blame guns for murder?

What about knives for stabbing, silver ware fir obesity, sugar for cavities, entertainment for poor grades, cars for laziness, man made/altered foods for cancer/diseases, sex for over population, modeling for teenagers dressing like whores, or even gas stations for pollution.

None if those things are the root cause. We the people are the issue, we the people chose this, we allow this. We give up our rights ever day we don't use them.

Our freedom was won through war with the use of guns. Our freedom will fall with out guns.

Guns are a tool to be used to fight and protect our freedoms. Our founding fathers knew this. That is why we were giving "The Right To Bear Arms". They foresaw a day in the American history where peace and safety will be at jeopardy so the gave us a right to fight back. The tools needed to win. The ability to stay free. We the people have to realize that one day there will be war against our own country to protect our own freedoms. That is unavoidable.

Letting them take are weapons of freedom, the same weapons used to win our freedom will only ensure the death of the people. It will only give our country the ability to control us. Drive us into poverty while they themselves live like kings.

I've said it before and ill say it again.

There are towns in this country where guns are required. In those towns they have a minimal amount of crime.

Apply that to a city with 3mill people. Say 75% of them are if age to carry guns. That's 2.25 million guns. At most I would say 3-5% are out to do crimes. That's less the 150,000 people. Those numbers would dwindle quickly she there is more then 1 million people pointing their guns right back at them when they try to rob someone, a store, rape, or kill.

The people of this country have the same rights and power as the military and police of this country. However we allow them to tell us other wise.

[philrab]

A. Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. Our founding fathers felt that government, even well intentioned, could never fully be trusted and the the concentration of power at the federal level would inevitably lead to corruption and oppression of the people. For that reason, they enshrined our second ammendment right to bare arms, as that would be the ultimate check and balance against a corrupt government. An armed populace can resist, and unarmed populace is subjugated. If any of that sounds like paranoia, read a history book, tyrants always disarm their citizens first.

B. More restrictive gun control laws have NEVER IN HISTORY resulted in a safer community. Statistically, gun free zones are much more likely to be the scene of a gun related crime. Figure out why.

C. Taking guns out of everyone's hands, if it were possible, would not address the root cause of violent crime; violent people. A gun in the hands of a law abiding citizen is perfectly safe. An unarmed violent criminal can still cause injury and death. All arguments about how many people could be harmed how quickly are beside the point. Most violent cirmes are not committed in a moment of passion, they are committed by repeat offenders, or people with a history of other crime (not necessarily violent, but escalating.) Address the problem, and lock these assholes up, and then slam shut the revolving door in the judicial system.

If anyone ever cares to confront or dispute these facts with other facts, I'm all ears. All I hear is opinion, emotion, and conjecture.

[philrab]

I voiced MY opinion on what COULD make a difference.

Statistically, and historically, you're wrong. End discussion. Gun control has NEVER been shown in any nation in any meaningful way to lessen violent crime. Ever. Period.

Alright buddy. I come from a town of 1.3 million people...6 people killed in total this year. But you're right it never changes anything....

Have a good one! I enjoyed our conversation

You're making some amazingly naive generalizations about your town of 1.3 million people, and applying cause and effect to a situation with tunnel vision. You want gun control/restrictive ownership to be the answer, and you're contorting the facts to suit the argument.

I live in a fairly diverse metro area around New Orleans. Across all the communities that make up the New Orleans metro area, a fairly large population, there are areas with VERY HIGH incidences of violent crime in which guns are used. There are likewise areas with so little gun related crime, it's almost a statistical anomoly. Economic conditions and mean home income, the local school systems (somewhat by extension), prevalence of unemployment, prevalence of divorce and the percentage of homes with non nucleur families (in other words, baby mama with no father around), these and MANY other factors have some baring on violent crime. The community as a whole largely dictates the severity and commonality of violent crime, not the presence or absence of guns.

This community BTW is in Louisiana, the "Sportsman State", where we have EXTREMELY high incidences of firearm ownership, and large community of military veterans (that are statistically almost always gun owners). I'd comfortably say there's plenty of firearms to go around, plenty of ammo, that's across the board. The areas in which violent crime is common or uncommon all exist within this same geographic area in which gun ownership is common.

Again, the problem isn't guns, and the answer isn't gun control. It never was, and it never will be. Fix the problem.

[LT.Smoke]

So if you feel that there is a legit reason behind it lets hear it. I mean we aren't talking about illegally procured guns being used in a crime right? Either guns at were stolen or gotten by methods that are already crimes. Gun control only applies to those who don't want to become a criminal.

Guns are the ultimate equalizer and that is true. Some people do let it go to their heads this is true as well mainly because they've never taken the time to realize what happens if you pull that trigger. I am unabashedly pro 2a. Almost all of you know that. I hope to god that I never have to use my firearms to protect my life or my family's life. The cost financially and emotionally are far too high.

I am obviously very much pro 2A as well . To touch base on your last part of the statement I will agree 100% being someone who has had to use my firearm more than once. If it wasn't for me knowing to STFU and get a lawyer which thankfully my Grandmother helped pay for. Heaven knows what would have happened to me even though my scenarios were justified...

End result was several thousands of dollars and long term nightmares of replaying the scenario over and over causing me to wake up drenched in sweat...Shit sucked BAD

So my advice to anyone is if you can avoid pulling the trigger than do so

[alaskanzx5]

^ yes if you don't have to pull the trigger then don't.

It is better to have and not need the to need and nit have.

[Broke_Audio_Addict]

I don't e.d.c just keep a 12 Guage at home but I've been strongly considering it due to the way shit has been getting around here everyday.

Plus I go through some really bad areas often.

Might just go take the class and get the cpl at least then I'll have the option if I want to.

[n8ball2013]

I carry everywhere I go. If its a long ride I've got an ar pistol that goes with me now. Unfortunately I work in New Jerseystan and travel to New York frequently as well where the right to self defense does not apply to the normal folk.

[Miguels]

California is the most strict in gun laws. they have banned guns everywhere even our cars because gang members doing drive-bys.. law abiding citizens stop carrying in cars, gang members continue to do drive-bys... tell me how that law worked?

[Jessica]

I really hate all these stats with percentages. That doesn't show what is going on in truth.

Its easy to hide things by using percentages. You take a town that has one murder a year and one year they have 3 you get a 300% increaese in murders.

But I digress.

I'm pro 2a and I own a firearm. There are no easy solutions but disarming the citizens is not one of them.

I don't think anyone here is smart enough to find the solution and that is not an insult.

The problems are far too big and complex for one or two people to solve.

[poorfish88]

So if you feel that there is a legit reason behind it lets hear it. I mean we aren't talking about illegally procured guns being used in a crime right? Either guns at were stolen or gotten by methods that are already crimes. Gun control only applies to those who don't want to become a criminal.

Guns are the ultimate equalizer and that is true. Some people do let it go to their heads this is true as well mainly because they've never taken the time to realize what happens if you pull that trigger. I am unabashedly pro 2a. Almost all of you know that. I hope to god that I never have to use my firearms to protect my life or my family's life. The cost financially and emotionally are far too high.

I am obviously very much pro 2A as well . To touch base on your last part of the statement I will agree 100% being someone who has had to use my firearm more than once. If it wasn't for me knowing to STFU and get a lawyer which thankfully my Grandmother helped pay for. Heaven knows what would have happened to me even though my scenarios were justified...

End result was several thousands of dollars and long term nightmares of replaying the scenario over and over causing me to wake up drenched in sweat...Shit sucked BAD

So my advice to anyone is if you can avoid pulling the trigger than do so

Smoke speaks the truth.....

And to others that have been spilling there guts about what kinds of guns they carry, STOP.

People that know your gun habbits can easily get you in trouble... That guy over there has been flashing and waving around a silver revolver... Cop finds a silver revolver on you...

Who's he going to believe?