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Because you asked... lol

is it a repost? fuck it if it is...this is my site. hahah

Man...this thread... Let's sum it up, AMM-1 is not the only way you can get reasonably accurate power results. Using a scope with true rms clamps and meters will get you there. That being said, the AMM-1 takes alot of the work and math out of it for those who could not do it otherwise. It's a tool, like any other tools, there is always another way. If you use a jig saw to make your sub cut outs why buy a router and circle jig? Because it is easier to get good results. But that doesn't mean the guy who uses the jig saw is suddenly doing it wrong. The same logic can be applied to this situation. Clamping with the right tools and knowhow will give you accurate results. Im sure this is why Taylor and that sinterman dude as well as myself are frustrated after reading through here and watching the vid, since it is suggesting that clamping will never be accurate which is really not the case. I think the AMM-1 is an awesome tool but it's just kinda shitty to start misleading the general audio community for a marketing campaign...intentional or not, it's happening

Soooooooo you're saying that a lead designer from Rockford Fosgate doesn't know how to measure the output from an amplifier correctly....? I would suggest some research before you make accusations...

Most handheld meters already measure RMS, not peak. So there's no need to multiply by 0.707 unless you're looking at peak numbers from an o-scope. Ohms Law is fine.......for DC. Doesn't directly apply for AC (amplifier output). Tony has a whole string of vids to teach people the basics:

A bank of fixed resistance... sounds like Chase.

so I can buy all those tools and a concrete bucket or 1 single tool? geez, tough choice. but I do see that guys point, this isn't the only tool that works. But, I will let him use the concrete bucket...

The reason it's misleading is that it's not utilizing the reason clamping is flawed- reactive loads (like subs). Unless you believe that very nice scope-meter is off by almost 20v. You actually don't even *need* the clamp meter in this clamp because it's on fixed resistance. The other thing is that this isn't the best way to show how the AMM-1 is better and easier than traditonal clamping. Take a look at my test rig... That's a lot of f'n shit to watch. The AMM-1 "watches" it all for you and spits out the number you're after with all of that crap. For "clamping" and doing it the most accurate way that you can, the AMM-1 is a no brainer. For hardcore amp testing... it can be done cheaper than the AD-1 with very accurate and consistent results. But that's another thread entirely. My whole point of chiming in on this vid is that the AMM-1 basically sells itself. You don't *need* to have a BS demonstration like this to mislead people. Do the test on subs with clamping vs. the AMM-1. That's the point. It's a great way to show how the AMM-1 is spot on with the AD-1 (awesome), but the clamp portion is flawed and misleading. All I'm suggesting is to redo the video. If you want to discredit clamping, at least do it correctly.

not going to take sides cause i don't really give a shit. I am enjoying the debate and seeing all the experts and "experts" chiming in. Please continue.

Ask and you shall receive.

This is getting interesting. Looks like a lot of people are taking this video the wrong way. We obviously have a couple of people in here that do have an idea how to properly use clamps on a resistive load. But how many people really do? I will be more than happy to redo the video and show more detail. Here are a few facts 1) on a resistive load, dyno and clamping should match. 2) dyno tells you the number straight up, to find the correct nber while clamping, you have to watch the sine wave to find the point that you think is just at or before clipping. 3) how many people that clamp, do it with a scope? Not many. Most use a dmm and cheap clamp. Even using a resistive load, you can't see your sine wave on a dmm so you just take the biggest number. Not accurate.

You should manufacture and sell your bucket-o-concrete meter. Sounds profitable. The shipping costs might suck though. I remember when we stared 3 years ago, someone told us "I could build a DD-1 with $10 of parts from Radio Shack". I'm still waiting to see it.

No matter what tool you come up with Tony, there's always haters that smater than u

Problem solved, test concluded....... let butt hurt continue. TonyD for Prez....

Everyone is gonna become mazda2442 now..

Plus so much easier/faster/simpler/efficient.

All I gotta say is amm-1 is a great tool. Pricey but good tool. Prolly best smd tool to date. Video showed clamp wrong. Admit it and move forward. How hard is it to make another 4 minute video? Someone who doesn't read through all these pages or watches video on Facebook or YouTube are going to be mislead. Your product can sell itself, doesn't need to put others down in false ways to sell it. For clamping in a car to see real power this tool is probably the easiest most affordable out there. Are there other ways, yes but this tool will eliminate all human error and be dead on everytime. Awesome stuff.

the way i see it is that is much easier to use the amm-1 then to get 3 tools to do what one can.. i would buy the amm-1 just because of the simplicity.. clamping can be close to accurate but it has to be by one that knows and understands it and has the correct tools. the amm-1 can be used by new people to the hobby

And the great shit storm of our time has come... I believe everyone in here has said that there is a somewhat accurate way to clamp, correct? We can agree on that? Good. What we're trying to get at is that instead of using 3 different tools and only being able to truly test non-reactive loads, you can use one tool, save yourself the time and hassle, and have a truly accurate reading in your car and see where your system is at. There's no smoke and mirrors here, what you see is what you get.

I understand what he is saying as well, just giving him a hard time. Jokes aside, even if that setup worked, you would then know how many VA your amplifier can put out into a bucket of concrete. Still wouldn't tell you how many Watts your amplifier puts into your SPEAKERS

Do we have anyone art-sy in here? I'd love to see a sketch of a guy dynoing an amplifier with a bucket of concrete with a pos scope, a voltmeter, a clamp meter, and a calculator attached to it.

Ask and ye shall receive. Stole these from Tony on FB. THIS is what I'm talking about. This is a comparision of "traditional" clamping on the left and right and the AMM-1 in the center ON A REACTIVE LOAD (subs). This is 34v and 6.2a. Traditionally we would do the math and come up with 211w rising to 5.5ohms. You can see the AMM-1 will tell you that too (if you want to know). NOW.... here is where the AMM-1 shines. You don't need fixed resistance or a dual input trillion dollar scope. The AMM-1 is calculating it all for you! Bingo. Clamping pwned.

For anyone that wants more info on AC power measuring or would just like a good read here ya go. http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/AC_11.html#xtocid174221

HAHA cheap clamp. http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/products.htm?item=353&ref=gbase&gclid=CPa_soijk7wCFVQV7AodIWYA-g

You crack me up. Cheap meter? Do you even know who/ what Fluke is. Go do your homework.

The point of this test wasnt to bash clamping, it was really to show the accuracy of the AMM1. Here is a breakdown of the test. Amp Dyno is being used to provide a 4Ω resistive load. On paper, the clamps, Dyno, and AMM1 should all agree on the same number since the load is resistive and the power factor is 100%. Here is where the tricky part comes in. If you are "clamping" using just a general DMM, there is no way for you to see where clipping occurs. Now if you use a nice Oscope, you can now see the sine wave. BUT you are having to rely on your eyes to tell you where clipping occurs to find out what the numbers are at this point to find your usable power. Once you take this into your vehicle and start using a subwoofer to create your load, now you run into phase angle which clamps cannot see. Overall the AMM1 does everything for you and make it MUCH MUCH easier. It is an all in 1 tool.

I'm not bashing the dyno or the AMM-1. Or even taking up for clamping for that matter, but the way the test was done using the dyno for the clamp portion isn't the best way to illustrate the difference. Cody retested the amp. He videoed the clamped portion this time. This is a screen shot of the 900w clamp result. Pay particular attention to the wave on the scope-meter The dyno and AMM-1 stop reading at 1% THD. Does that look like 1% to you? Yeah... me neither. This is much closer. This is a screen shot of the same vid, but while the wave is still clean. That's 570w and MUCH closer to what the dyno and AMM-1 are seeing. Clamping is flawed because of the phase angle on reactive loads. But he isn't using a reactive load here, is he?

iirc They way he clamped is not the correct way. I saw a video from Tony D'Amore that showed the correct math to use to clamp an amp, it's more that just multiplying and dividing two numbers

Were thinking about offering these as a more available option. We have always been able to make them but just started thinking if we made some in advance and offered it as a option, how many people even mount there amps in a way that they could use them?

You won't find one N8. If you search his history on CACO or character in general he's the epitome of read, hear, and repeat but no first hand knowledge or experience. Not to mention an incredible disdain for SMD, the forum and person, and Damore. I don't say this to stir the pot, I say it because once you realize the true nature you can remove the facade of objectivity. He even made a thread asking why people used getting loud as a rebuttal in debates and why doesn't someone who doesn't compete or get loud get taken seriously. I'm honestly surprised he's here at all. I can see the point being made and know Cody will step up yo the plate. I know people who test things in their own like myself or Taylor can sympathize how much effort goes into helping and people can seem ungrateful. I love the AMM 1 as I didn't have to pay more money since I no longer work in a custom shop.

how about you just do a correct clamping method vid and then at the end of clamping the amp use the amm1 to show how much faster it is and if there is a difference (which im sure there will be) will just show that the amm1 is faster easier and more accurate then clamping all together. at the end of the vid have a list of everything the amm1 can do.

How about this, would you like me to redo the test and use only a TRMS Multi meter. THen how are you going to know the point where clipping occured? The only thing wrong with what I did may be the way I come across on the video instead of explaining why there is such a drastic difference. Here is the fact of the matter. 99% of people who clamp are going to do exactly what I did. Take the biggest number you see and claim it as watts. i agree with you, most will take the max true rms and dont even know what an o-scope is. most dont know what power factor is, for most, this video will show them how far off they are. but for people who do it right and have all proper tools, this video is completely wrong. i could care less if you re-do it, but at the end of the day , if you showed people how to properly clamp in this video none of the arguments would be made in this thread. and the amm-1 wold look even better since you dont have to do any calculations or readings and you dont need more than one person to clamp. please understand im not trying to argue, but this video can be misleading.

Where do you get .707 from?

You're not catching the point trying to be made. The results are different because they're different measurements. 600w @ 1% THD and 900w clipped. The clamp is showing the clipped power after the other two stopped their measurements. That's why they're different. Not because of the inherent inaccuracy of clamping on subs. But I will agree that most people just clamp their shit where ever. But in this case, the clamp is entirely accurate.

This thread is lulz

I understand what he is saying as well, just giving him a hard time. Jokes aside, even if that setup worked, you would then know how many VA your amplifier can put out into a bucket of concrete. Still wouldn't tell you how many Watts your amplifier puts into your SPEAKERS You should post the vid of you showing what the AMM-1 can do. That might clear up some things.

In before it gets closed.... Well I like the AMM-1 as it does more than just test the real power your subwoofer is seeing which is going to be different than what the dyno says. I think Tony's demo vid he did about the AMM-1 is very informative and just focuses on the fact that any DYI audio person can use it for many different things. This thread is getting out of hand IMO. But hey it is fun to read.

I like the way you think sintorman, I just think the way you express yourself might get you banned here. I totally agree with mrd6 though. There was a flaw in this test that was easy to overlook, but now that its been brought to the attention of everybody I don't see why you can't just redo the test. Its not that the amm-1 or amp dyno is worse because of a redo. If anything it will prove they work consistently. But I would just be weary seeing a salesman keep up an advertisement that he knows is false and slandering his competition.

You are looking at about $5000 worth of testing equipment sitting on my make shift bench. I have the tools to do the job correctly, most people dont. The AMM1 now provides an affordable solution that. That's what i'm trying to say, with cost difference between the tools needed to get an accurate test the amm1 is a hands down winner.Yes clamping with the right tools can give you More accurate result but still not 100% and not as cost effective. Let's face it us audio guys are always looking for a good way to save money while still getting the install done right. The amm1 helps do that plus some with ease and accuracy. Sorry if anyone feels like i'm baking clamping, not trying to. It's the way of the past and inaccurate compared to the amm1. For a cost effective tool the amm1 is a steal. Unless the amm1 is cheaper than 250 bucks then it's actually not the better deal. But if you honestly need something that can measure taking into account for the power factor then I guess spend the extra money. 99% of people don't do it and so the industry standard is basically clamping for voltamps. If the Fluke meters are used with an purely resistive load (99% of people do not have this), and you can guarantee that NO CLIPPING occurs then the AMM-1 and clamps should agree. So you need a True RMS Voltmeter, a True RMS clamp meter, an oscilloscope, and a non-inductive load bank. So basically an Amp Dyno. Add a zero to the end of that $250 Thanks Tony, the price for an accurate clasp test is a lot higher then people think. That price is much more the the amm1 and the amm1 is an all around helpful tool for car audio at a small% of the price for an accurate clamp test bench

That is like a milisecond after the 651 pops up. And that is 683 watts at 4 ohms or 701 at 3.9 ohms. And even in the video I can tell the wave is just starting to clip. So if you actually performed the test where the tone stopped when the dyno stopped then they both would have been within a few watts of each other. And it's really not hard to use your eyes if you have the scope resolution set correctly. But again even through a YT video I can see when it starts clipping. Not to mention how fast the tone used ramps up the signal voltage. If you were just rolling it up instead you could actually watch the wave. Like Taylor said. Take the video down and do the test properly. Do it like this. Dyno the amp. Figure the correct output voltage for the amp to be clean. Set your clamps and scope up and then get to that voltage showing it's clean. then go slightly over and watch the wave clip. Showing they are accurate with each other.

I saw all the posts disagreeing with you, but I don't know how anybody understood any of this shit you wrote to argue against you. Please help me understand what the fuck you are talking about?

D'amore had a vid showing why it's off. Something about phase differences. I haven't watched in a while but here:

Wow.......is nice how the dyno and amm1 takes all the "what if" out of the equation of using the clamps. Makes thing a lot simpler for the average consumer and pros. Great job Partner. Get yours today. http://www.droppinhzcaraudio.com/smd-audio-multimeter-amm-p-269.html

Please take this viedo down. It's extremely misleading.

Fuck... i say let "them" keep doing what they do.... The rest of "us" will rise..

sure clamps are still good for what they are GOOD at. This isn't one of them. An electrician "Checking Electricity" (LMAO BTW) and your buddy measuring amp output in his garage is not the same thing. Just sayin'.

i know he made it...but i didn't see he posted it anywhere...but then again this forum is so damn busy i can't find a needle in a needle stack sometimes

Hahah.. yup. The guy who made the vid is CJ18

this shit is fun - i love the suspense of watching you guys guess...knowing if someone hits, it's gonna cost me a few hundred $$. Totally worth it though Ill do more testing i promise but i gotta keep the amps smaller or get a bigger power supply. My pocket book has to get bigger or get a bigger "supply" first though cuz this shit isn't cheap thanks to all who participated! to the noobs - stay friendly, make some friends, learn some shit, stay a while!

i think you'd stick your dick in a blender if it told you it was 40 wtih two kids your age. lol